KnifeSteelNerds -- Knife Steels Rated by a Metallurgist

Knife Steels Rated by a Metallurgist
[knifesteelnerds.com]

While I think Larrin's work is quite valuable overall, I don't really chase steels anymore so I don't find it terribly useful. One of the reasons I stopped messing around with edge holding experiments is I found it didn't really matter what steel I tried, in normal use the chance I'd notice a difference was low. Is there a difference between S110V and CTS BD1 stainless? I'm sure there is but when tested side by side with similar edge angles and starting sharpness levels I couldn't see it.

I'd be perfectly happy with 8670 class steels for most all uses, not just large rough use knives. I plan to build a kitchen knife set with that actual steel when I catch up on my other knife projects, so some time next year.

All my issues aside, that's a very fair rating system. Nothing I can really object to other than quibbling over some specific rankings that I can't justify. I have a hard time getting the high alloy steels like S110V as blisteringly sharp as the simpler steels. This might be the reason for my results in the S110V vs CTS BD1 comparison above. I'm half way working on a sharpening system that will perhaps solve this issue. When I do finish, maybe I'll try some more high alloy steels to see if I like them better and justify the cost.

I'm glad to see Larrin mention the geometry aspect and the balancing act between edge holding and damage resistance. That's how I tune my knives now, and steel is secondary. I also take more time and don't try to rebevel the edge all at once. My Kershaw Random Leek is currently at 22 degrees per side, but the edge bevel is even. When I sharpen it next time, that should reduce some frustration with getting an even bevel while reducing it down one step to 17 degrees per side. At some point it will go to 12 degrees per side. It's a thin, small folder. What other geometry makes sense? I expect it will really do well there, even though it's only 14C28N. It's one of the few knives I run all the way to a 4000 grit waterstone polish.

Yeah, steels really don't matter to me either. It always was the last thing I cared about when getting a knife. That being said, I would like to get my hands on some MagnaCut and SPY27.

The most difficult to sharpen knives are those with high retained austenite. They form tough burrs that never seem to come off. The recommended heat treatment for S110V has an austenitizing temperature that is too high in my opinion. I believe that is leading to reports of poor sharpening. It might have happened because they significantly changed the composition of S110V without re-doing the datasheet.

That’s interesting. I haven’t followed steels too much in about 3 years. I had trouble getting S110V as sharp as my other knives and had the same issue with whatever steel Hinderer was using several years ago during Cliff’s Hinderer pass around. I always try to remember I can’t be sure what I’m missing if I can’t get the knives the same sharpness. However, I wasn’t eager to buy a new knife then drop an equal amount at least on stones to maintain it. I also confess I don’t really like S30V either and have trouble with it whenever a get a new knife using that steel.

Here is the video that goes along with the article in case it was overlooked:

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jasonstone20
Yeah, steels really don't matter to me either. It always was the last thing I cared about when getting a knife. That being said, I would like to get my hands on some MagnaCut and SPY27.

Jason, I recently ordered a Manix 2 in SPY27 so after a couple of months of use I’ll let you know what I think of it - and in comparison to the other Manix 2 steels I have. I may even do a short video for you…I don’t know yet.

I’ve lost interest in knife and steel analysis overall as I just like using knives, and sharpening them, in my day to day life; that said, anything new that Spyderco releases always interests me, especially in the Manix 2 form.

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me2
That’s interesting. I haven’t followed steels too much in about 3 years. I had trouble getting S110V as sharp as my other knives…

I’ve been using S110V significantly for a few years now and in my own experience I’ve observed that it just won’t get as refined (sharp) as something like 1095, 52100, or CTS BD1 - all of which take a similar level of sharpness in my experience. In fact, CTS BD1 really impressed me in this regard and I really like it.

With S110V I shape and polish the bevel, then carefully - without a lot of pressure - set the apex on Atoma #600, refine it further on Atoma #1200 then do 2-3 light passes ps on Spyderco Brown medium Ceramic and then 2 ultra light passes ps on the same. It holds that level for quite some time and if you want to bring it back just use the medium ceramic or similar # diamond plate with a couple of passes ps.

Pressure applied is a key factor with this in my experience. It seems to me it’s never going to get to 52100 level so I don’t bother. End result is still a very very sharp knife which will hurt a bit if you cut yourself.

BTW, That’s how I like to measure edges…by the type of hurt/pain they cause. If you don’t feel it then it’s like a highly refined 1095 razor, if you do feel it it’s like a “toothy” edge.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2022 01:36AM by Wolfgang.

Haven’t checked here in a while. It’s nice to see someone else had the same experience sharpening S110V. I’m planning on getting some diamond stones for finishing edges. That might justify revisiting S110V to see if I can get a better edge.

Hey Wolfgang,

Pressure is an interesting concept in sharpening. I wonder what type of measurable test could be done? I know too much pressure can roll an edge, tear the diamonds and CBN from their matrix and chip a very hard steel. Thanx. I think I'll mention that on the "Scope the edge" thread at Spyderco.

sal

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sal
Hey Wolfgang,

Pressure is an interesting concept in sharpening. I wonder what type of measurable test could be done? I know too much pressure can roll an edge, tear the diamonds and CBN from their matrix and chip a very hard steel. Thanx. I think I'll mention that on the "Scope the edge" thread at Spyderco.

sal

Hey, Sal.

Sorry, I didn’t see your post until now.

I’ve seen a few people place their stones on a set of scales, zero it, then sharpen; thereby trying to get a picture of how much pressure is used.

I haven’t personally tried it but I immediately see some issues with variables in this method. It could probably be done well enough to minimize variables but would likely take more than just a 10 second setup, no practice, and using bathroom scales.

I’ll see if I can find some decent digital scales large enough for a full sized waterstone and yet sensitive enough to pick up nuances in pressure. Ideally, they’d need to record the most force, least force, and average force applied. I have no idea if such scales that are affordable even exist.

Wolf

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jasonstone20
Yeah, steels really don't matter to me either. It always was the last thing I cared about when getting a knife. That being said, I would like to get my hands on some MagnaCut and SPY27.

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Wolfgang

Jason, I recently ordered a Manix 2 in SPY27 so after a couple of months of use I’ll let you know what I think of it - and in comparison to the other Manix 2 steels I have. I may even do a short video for you…I don’t know yet.

Jason, just a quick update on the SPY27.

It’s ok, nothing that really gets me excited though. I think I prefer CTS-BD1 to be honest. I won’t be writing anything in depth about it. I really only bought it for the handle color. It’s a nice knife and I have no complaints but nothing to shout about either.

Wolfgang,
Well, that is anti-climatic. I would like to try some MagnaCut or some Nitrobe 77.

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jasonstone20
Wolfgang,
Well, that is anti-climatic. I would like to try some MagnaCut or some Nitrobe 77.

I haven’t done any real evaluations or testing with it, just daily use for a number of months. I will make some notes and take observations in the future. It’s not a steel I’d avoid by any means.